I like it better than the small pistols and can conceal the 1911 easily. His analysis is paramount to someone telling me the 7mm Rem Mag will outperform the 8mm Rem Mag. The USMC changed to 9mm since female Marines had trouble with recoil and were not qualifying at same rate as males. Damage: 55. I would go with the 38 Super + P. Now you have something to rely on. True. Rounds were literally ranked on the basis of temporary cavity volume, with penetration and permanent cavity ignored. John Michael Callahan served in law enforcement for 44 years. Its proven knowledge. Since the mid-2000s, gunmakers catering to consumers who increasingly buy weapons for self-defense have produced fewer of the small-caliber handguns like the .25 or .32, and, A .22 will kill you, but it wont blow your head apart, he said. On a side note, this is the recent trend move away from larger calibers to smaller ones. In this article, we will present what we believe to be the most credible information regarding wound ballistics from studies conducted by the FBIs Firearms Training Academy in legendary Quantico, Virginia. A .45 ACP will encounter greater resistance than a 9mm, but it also carries more weight, albeit at a slower velocity. You have renewed my faith in man. Garand Thumb 2.84M subscribers 4.2M views 1 year ago 9mm vs 45 ACP, the age old debate and the one that You need to be a little more specific. .45 caliber merely refers to the diameter of the bullet. There are a large variety of cartridges that fire b Where the human component is a significant factor thats been deleted from so many test results. If you kill one, you take one out of battle. What you provide is false true and true. 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. Your story reinforced thisas civilian in counters are closer that usual police work. But for those of us that like to aim and make good hits Ill take the 45 as a primary with a compact 9 as a backup. Ive come to a conclusion that many people lean towards the 9 mm including the military because its easier to control and thus are more accurate, especially for a teenager fresh out of high school. Shot placement is the deciding factor. I was told by a person in the government that the choice of 9mm verses any other round was decided by the cost and mass availability of the ammo periodFor Military, FBI, CIA, Police, Sheriffs and all governmen t branches But I do like Cor- Bon, and Glaser POWRBALL BY COR-BON. The FBI subsequently transitioned from revolvers to semi auto .40 caliber handguns with S&W .40 caliber bullets (a slightly shorter version of the 10mm round). A 7.6225 is venerated as so amazing by PPsh humpers. I have several. John I agree, the Browning Black Label in 380 ACP is a superb gun. Come join the discussion about optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! After receiving this wound, Platt initiated a devastating attack upon the surrounding FBI agents, killing two (including Agent Dove) and severely wounding two more. In my own personal EXPERIENCE the .45 tends to put the assailant down with ONE OR TWO rounds. I imagine humans are the same. The money has to come from somewhere. Not to mention costs savings in ammo which is a big deal both in the government and civilian perspective. The slower 45acp round FMJ will pass through but leaving more energy expended plus a larger wound channel so the same to a lesser degree applies to the 45 acp FMJ; but, if you have 45acp JHP in the gun usually one hit whether it be in the shoulder, leg or chest area game over. I definitely know how to settle this little petty argument. Really lets cut to the chase. The 9 mm and the round for the 9 mm is by far the cheaper not the better choice! But you still want the best caliber possible, because while people are disposed to fall down when shot, not every target does. I cant compare to 9mm but I still want to carry 45acp. WebThey could balance it by decreasing the damage of other pistol cartridges, like for example, Intermediate cartridges like 7.62x39/5.56x45 could one tap the upper torso and 2 tap lower torso, the .45 ACP could 2 tap torso, dealing just shy the amount of damage required to kill upper torso, include a large penalty with that. With proper shot placement, I can make my .22 a rock star. Mine is easily concealable, accurate and has never failed to function. If knock down power is desired forget the 45 and get a 44 mag or get a 375 they kill most anything one shot. Just imagine what it might have been like had you had to perform a reload in that situation? In Sicily had m14 auto and bi pod. I wonder what the future holds? 15 round magazine is better than a 7 round magazine. One week later the detective in charge advised me that papa lived, walked out of the hospital and back to Mexico. We were trained with a .45, to protect the patient. If, God forbid, you are ever in a situation where you are required to use your handgun, there is, to put it mildly, a great deal at stake. LE, south LA and Watts for 8 1/2 out of 15 years. We can argue 9 vs 45. But we generally would refer to them as cartridges or rounds as a bullet is just the projectile portion encased in a cartridge and loaded into the firearm. If the technology got better for one caliber, it got better for all of them!! Damage: 22 per pellet. My opinion, for whatever its worth, is that were all overthinking this. The pool of cartridges in the study are grouped which makes the data integrity less reliable but each group of larger calibers exhibit significant percentage better lethality. I am at a loss for words as I read the above two paragraphs like literally at a loss for words. Okay all handgun are garbage. I am not aware of any hollowpoints that were designed to expand on the way to the target. Colt Defender 3" 45 ACP; Colt Gov't 70 Series; Kimber Warrior, w/ Rail; Kimber Warrior II; Kimber Super Carry Pro; Kimber Super Carry Ultra, 45 ACP, 3" Remington 1911 R1 Enhanced 5" 45 ACP; Ruger SR1911 Commander 4 Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless the is bone different muscle mass fat and other bonds in our bodies This represents a cultural shift in America. For this reason, some dismiss magnum rounds altogether and sing the praises of the S&W .40 round, which supposedly combines the best features of the .45 ACP and the 9mm. At 10-20 yards I want a .45. I have also recorded a few single-shot kills from a .45ACP, one from as far To ensure fragmentation would be to make a round so fragile that it would virtually eliminate penetratration. That problem is solved by making more of a bullets surface area actually come in contact with its target. He taught criminal law/procedure at the FBI Academy. Probably not, but here is my take on the ol' 9mm vs 45 ACP debate. True enough, but the dead enemy will not lie there or sit-up and shoot or pull the pin on a grenade on you as the wounded enemy might. Sudden, immediate and even instant death. My opinion is he got shot in the living room and after he kicked the door in. There is no substitute for experience. The FBI Training Division reported in May 2014 that officers, on average, strike an adversary with only 20 percent to 30 percent of the shots fired during a shooting incident. A century? I think it maybe a case of, its better to wound the enemy, than to kill him. Obama wants us dead. I like a simple .45 +P with a lot of lead. But this cartridge uses a half-grain bullet compared to 9mm. The .223 weighs in at 55 grains, while the .22 is usually 45 grains or smaller. You are up close and personal with this guy. .45 ACP damage increased from 35-40-65 to 35-40-75, and minimum damage decreased from 60% to 50%. This recent policy change and operational change means the U.S. Marine Corps' special arm of SOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) has also come to terms with the debate of 9mm vs. .45ACP. In other words, negative acceleration and a non-linear path are both occurring. What more and more people are choosing is CAPACITY. AND.carry what YOU are comfortable and accurate with. Damage: 62. Both hit 15 first shot, .45 exploded watermelon leaving trails about 15 feet behind, 9mm put a hole in it nothing more. After decades of witnessing the 45 vs 9 mm battle. So they fudge the data. Do you really think that all of SOCOM is using rifles and SMGs, and the Marines are using pistols? The .45, for instance, is slightly slower than the 9mm, but features a more massive projectile, with 250 grains of mass compared to the 9mms typical 115 grains. It has something to do with occasions where they might carry concealed: Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile, and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said. Thats my two cents for what its worth. Many years ago in auto racing, there was a saying regarding power. According to the song the battle for New Orleans, canonbalks were fired from alligator mouths which showed resourcefulness. First off when you call a magazine a CLIP, everything you say is null and void as far as Im concerned. I also have one that many people will call garbage. Patrick points out that there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support voluntary, life-threatening actions against an officer for 10 to 15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed. Platt was killed at the end of the gunfight, but not before unleashing deadly mayhem. One writer mentioned the old adage about wounding one and it takes two more to remove him from the field of battle. The projectile is losing velocity and arcing downward. For damage; within 50m against soft targets I want to say it goes 7.62 >.45 > 9mm. Over time, conditions that damage the liver can lead to scarring (cirrhosis), which can lead to liver failure, a life-threatening condition. He didnt get more than three feet from the bathroom. and I guess $$.. Liver problems can also be caused by a variety of factors that damage the liver, such as viruses, alcohol use and obesity. When the weather is colder and requires a jacket or coat, I carry my Glock 30s, extra mag for either. Its hard for Civilians to understand the firepower of the Military & Police, and what they can choose to bring to bear on their target, but we are responsible for each bullet fired, as Civilians! Regards Jim, Sorry for the typos are you speak to text because I cant text like my child. In the past, one of the standard tests performed to assess bullet and cartridge performance was the penetration of pine boards of various thicknesses. Work scenarios out in your head before they happen. During the shootout, Special Agent Jerry Dove fired a lightweight, high-velocity 9mm round that struck murder/armored car robbery suspect Michael Lee Platt in the upper right arm. Which things can be argued, but more important is being able to handle what you have. Also we are talking pistols. When they strike, the bullets rotate, and more of their surface hits the body. Wouldnt waste my money on it. If youre being attacked or in the process of deterring an oncoming attack, fear can have an affect. It was a contact shot into the center chest on a sleeping target. I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. and departments. According to the Marine Corps Times: For Marine special operators, the never-ending debate over whether the 9mm or .45-caliber round is the more powerful bullet has been settled. Not to suggest that a skilled shooter (and/or soldier or Marine) couldnt shoot it, but almost anybody is going to be faster with a 9mm in their hands. Although it should be noted that Glock is manufacturing in the US now, Sig Sauer is as well. That said a handgun is only used to get to a bigger firearm..it was never ment to be used in longer than 30 meter engagements. Damage: 22. Now thats hilarious. The primary result of permanent cavity damage is profuse bleeding. 9mm capacity! Anyway, stay tuned we shall wait and see. .22lr is an assassins round yet we all have fun plinking around with it. When the cavalry at the time switched to the .45 round, the round was effective in doing enough damage to put them down more effectively. The latest testing shows that modern 9mm performs pretty much as well as the other common semi-auto options, and since it carries more rounds and is easier to shoot (and I dont care who you are, but it is easier/faster to shoot compared to the larger calibers), it is fairly sound logic to select the 9mm. Different bullets and guns have different patterns. Very smart Chris ! Since doing some research on the new ammo for the .380 acp, Ive decided that 17-22 of penetration from Lehigh & Ruger Personal Defense rounds, I carry the Browning Black Label .380. You get Into a real shooting scenario. The U.S. military collected reports of its effects on the first Viet Cong combatants to be shot with the bullet. WebThe Smith & Wesson Model 26 is a target style revolver chambered in .45 ACP. So I want a round that will do the trick no matter if he flinches or I do. For almost 17 years that I carred a badge I carried a S&W 357 on a K frame. Patrick explains in his treatise that, A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. Repeat over and over, and keep doing so even after proficiency is achieved. By now, people should have realized that it is 100% personal opinion and preference. A .223 is just 55 grains. Of course, smoothly drawing a handgun leads directly to another subject: which holster is best for those concerned with personal protection? Q-Did the owners of their weapons replace recoil springs on a maintenance schedule? 9mm doesnt work so well one at a time from a pistol, but we didnt have any expectation that it would. Kimber 1911 Rapide Dawn .45 ACP Pistol $ 1649 99 1649 dollars 99 cents. Practice, practice, practice. The energy delivered to the target increases geometrically along with increases in mass, and exponentially with increases in velocity. One of the reasons for the 45 why soldiers love the 45 has to do with the bullet itself tumbling once it hits flesh. In the woods my .45 r1 with cast is what I carry. That and other factors. Walked closer and finished it with a 44 round between the eyes. Just some REAL world observation not keyboard commando stuff. After 22 years as a combat soldier, I am kind of partial to the .45 ACP, but I shoot modern, guide rod equipped with aftermarket sights, not rack guns. Over the years I have owned and carried many 1911s. Mainly because it is polymer from and not as well build and equipped as the Walther Q4. Here is the money point: assume you will only get ONE shot at the perp. I have my personal preferences and it is the .45 ACP, next is the 40 S&W, down the line a couple of notches is the 9mm. Thats good, it is always good for people to find what works best for them. It is extremely difficult to shoot accurately under such pressure. 7.62 isn't pistol ammunition though. If you wound one man, you take three men out of battle, one injured & two to care for him. WebThe human body can survive relatively high blast overpressure without experiencing barotrauma. career to carry a Glock 9mm. Just bless his little Prsident heart. SEMPER FI. The earlier FBI testing left no doubt that tissue displacement was greater with the larger rounds. Copyright 2023 Police1. Startle affect. How about a discussion of American made vs foreign made weapons for our military? But I think the bigger point to be made is that it would not be wise to make a decision on a pistol or caliber simply because it is bigger, and therefore more manly. It should be made based on the merits and actual performance of the different calibers and/or pistols. Its hesitation that makes people miss. The temporary cavity is the hole in the target that briefly expands after immediate impact, only to collapse a fraction of a second later. You might be able to talk to the first guy. D.R. Surprising, I know, given the current state of affairs in DC. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. As to which will stop a human fasterhavent a darn clue. In the above GIF of ballistics gel taking a .50-cal. Also, I question how much influence the logistics command had over this conclusion. If you need to kill someone with a single shot, a rifle is what you need, not a handgun.. View our Terms of Service Select the option or tab named Internet Options (Internet Explorer), Options (Firefox), Preferences (Safari) or Settings (Chrome). If another prefers a 9mm let him use it. arrow moving at what velocity.200 feet per second? While massive trauma to the circulatory system can cause incapacitation, this takes time. Im an athletic guy so handling the recoil is not too bad. And thats hardly re-enacting a self defense scenario. If you have been hit with any kind of bullet large, fast, expanding, or otherwise please fill out our survey about your experience after being shot. I however still allowed to carry a 45 and, will as long as I am able to. Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. If a projectile has features that would cause it to expand upon impact, U.S. Army engineers Donald Carlucci and Sidney Jacobson explained in the textbook Ballistics: Theory and Design of Guns and Ammunition, it will cause greater trauma.. Note how velocity is squared, and mass is halved. Nothing beats a 12 guage with 100 rounds of 00 and slugs.
Jiu Jitsu Tournaments Washington State 2022,
2800 W Kingsley Rd, Garland Tx 75041 United States,
How Long Does Proactiv Take To Work,
Dental Malpractice Cases In California,
Newington High School Honor Roll 2021,
Articles OTHER